i know you're the go-to guys for this. mind if i ask you for some technical advice. i'm not trying to be a wise-guy, i've just always wondered if this would work. here's my question: would a "continuous" closed loop pipe system, i.e., cast iron, thick walled pvc, with a trap ("u" bend in the pipe), where the pit would be, function the same way as a traditional electrical sump-pump system, "without" the need for the electric water pump? if not, why? wouldn't ground-water fill the closed pipe system, then fill the over-sized "p" trap and continue to rise, seeking it's own level at the top of the pipe that runs up the wall in the basement to (above grade) and then exit outside via a flexible pipe via gravity, away from the foundation. fill the trap with a second parallel pipe, above the trap, or a pipe near the outside discharge pipe just below the foundation, using the same ground water that's filling the main pipe to equalize the pressure and keep the water flowing until the water level fell below the fill point at the exit discharge pipe, eliminating the need for a pit, electrical pump and battery back-up pump that always fails when it rains and then my floods the basement anyway? (not anymore though, thanks to you and your guys!) not trying to put plumbers out of business, i just don't know enough about physics, mechanical engineering, flow dynamics, water pressure or plumbing to figure out why this would or would not work? thanks. tim collins Less